Make Your School Values Have Impact With Esther Cohen

Make Your School Values Have Impact With Esther Cohen

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In order to maintain a positive and meaningful school culture, it†s essential that the school†s core values are reflected in pupil behaviour, attitudes and their learning.

In this episode of School Behaviour secrets, we interview educator and therapeutic life coach Esther Cohen. She discusses the delicate balance between emotional development and academic progress and she reveals how she was able to embed meaningful values in a unique faith-based school setting that she works in.

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Show notes / transcription

Esther Cohen  0:00  

Faith education is about a human's personal connection, their own sets of belief. Faith education in a strange kind of way also relates to those that have no belief at all. It is about how they relate to spirituality and how they relate to the wider universe and to nature and whether they have a relationship with a higher being, call it whatever they might want, or what motivates them, what hooks them and what props them up, when the winds are so strong that it's bending them down.

Simon Currigan  0:37  

This is the school behaviour secrets podcast. Hi there. My name is Simon Currigan and welcome to this week's episode of school behaviour secrets. Charles Darwin, giant of the scientific world once wrote, a man who dares to waste one hour of time has not yet discovered the value of life. And I imagine if you'd listened to this show, his review on Apple podcasts would be more than a little judgy. Right now, I'm joined today by my co host who never wastes anyone's time. Emma Shackleton. Hi, Emma. 

Emma Shackleton  1:42  

Hi, Simon. 

Simon Currigan  1:43  

I'd like to open the show by asking you a quick question. 

Emma Shackleton  1:46  


Simon Currigan  1:46  

What is something that you really value in life? And why?

Emma Shackleton  1:51  

Okay, I thought you said that this was a quick question. I will give a quick answer. The first thing that springs to mind something that I really value in life is friendship. So having that support network around me and being able to support other people is something that I really value. So what's that got to do with today's episode?

Simon Currigan  2:11  

Well, today we're going to share my interview with Esther Cohen, whom I met on a recent behaviour audit at King David school in Birmingham, a behaviour audit is where we go into a school. And we look at how well our schools behaviour policy is working, and its impact on the kids. And what impressed me on this audit was the way that Esther had worked hard alongside other members of the senior leadership team to deeply embed their values throughout the curriculum and school life. And the school is an interesting one, because it's a Jewish school that serves a diverse community, that's actually predominantly Muslim. And as a result of her work, you can really see those values being taught and lived in the classroom. And the thing is, often when we look at how a school communicates its values, it's done in a very sort of lip service kind of way, like the values are brainstormed on a training day or something. And then they're put up on a display. And then no one really ever mentions them in a meaningful way moving forwards. Esther's approach to weaving in the school values in a faith based school was really impressive. And I'm talking as an atheist here as a non believer and the principles she used can apply to any setting, religious or otherwise. So if you're listening to this, and you want the values that your school cares about, to have a meaningful impact on behaviour on culture and attitudes, where you work, then this interview is for you whether your setting is faith based or not.

Emma Shackleton  3:37  

Wow, it sounds like this one had a really big impact on you, Simon.

Simon Currigan  3:41  

It did. It was really interesting. The way it was translating, Esther's approach was translating the theory into practice, her beliefs into behaviours and actions in the classroom.

Emma Shackleton  3:54  

Well, I can't wait to listen in. But before we get to that, I've got a quick favour to ask our listeners. If you're enjoying the show, or you're finding it valuable, please, could you leave us an honest rating and review? When you do this, It tells the algorithm to recommend our show to other listeners, and helps us to reach more teachers, school leaders and parents. So without further ado, here's Simon's interview with Esther Cohen.

Simon Currigan  4:22  

Today I'm very excited to welcome Esther Cohen to the show. Esther is a teacher and educator counsellor and a therapeutic life coach. She was born and raised in Brazil trained and worked as a teacher in the US before she moved to England where she furthered her studies becoming a counsellor and a life coach. She merged her passion for education and mental health through a master's study looking at teaching self regulation to pupils through faith education. Esther is currently the head of religious education at the King David Primary School, is a Jewish education inspector and runs a private online Counselling Centre. Esther, welcome to the show.

Esther Cohen  5:01  

Thank you very much, Simon. It is a real pleasure to join you here today.

Simon Currigan  5:06  

Could you start by telling us a little bit about the school that you work in, King David school and its background?

Esther Cohen  5:11  

Yes, sure, sure. King David school is an Orthodox Jewish voluntary aided school. It's a primary school. It's a faith based school with a very, very strong ethos. It is, if you like, considered the diamond in the crown of the Jewish community in Birmingham. It was founded in 1843. It's been supported by one of the local synagogues Birmingham Hebrew congregation, and it moved to its current site in Mosley in 1965. It's a forever changing school because of the demographics of the Jewish community. Many, many years ago, one of my children went to the school, the number of Jewish pupils were a lot greater than now as the Jewish community has moved away and the Birmingham community has become a much older community. We have welcomed people from all faiths, and we have now a high majority of Muslim children together with a multicultural intake of pupils from all different backgrounds.

Simon Currigan  6:23  

So we met during the whole school behaviour audit of King David School, which is where we come in and look at stakeholders perceptions about behaviour and SEMH in school. I mean, we come on to the school site to see how well the school's policies and systems are working to promote good behaviour. And I was really interested and impressed in the way you approach your KD STARS programme, and wove the school's values and faith through that programme was sort of a really consistent, systematic way that was clearly having a big impact on the kids. So can you tell us about what your KD STARS programme is? And how does it work in your school?

Esther Cohen  7:01  

Let me tell you first a little bit about the thinking behind it. And a little bit about the background in one of my roles, as you mentioned in the beginning about the faith inspections for Jewish schools, and a key question in an inspectors mind is looking and exploring the ethos of the school and looking to see what the school proposes its aim for a pupil in year six. And the ethos is very much about the spiritual, the moral, the cultural, and the emotional development of the child as well as the educational aims that the school has for the child. Our main motto is Where Stars Shine, there is a very, very strong focus on the balance between the academic and the emotional, social, cultural aspect of it. There is a underlying thread of the religious the faith aspect that is woven through everything we do. It is based on the Jewish faith, but the way it's delivered, it's delivered in a global way, in a way that helps children reflect and find meaning. So based on that, what I was trying to achieve was to create a healthy thinking habit of children and being able to gain the tools to develop reflective thinking, awareness of choices about behaviours, children developing self regulation, through faith education, and a deeper awareness of well being. Through their journey through the schools, I came up with the idea of the K D STAR. KD as in King David. STAR as in our motto. The KD STAR really is a combination of Hebrew terminology headlines, which develops into a way of thinking, if you like, a way of approaching all our learning in school.

Simon Currigan  9:08  

So what would the child's experience of the KD STAR programme be from sort of their perspective? What would it look like in the classroom or being a pupil in school?

Esther Cohen  9:16  

So all we did was we talked about the children being where stars shine, those concepts were introduced in assemblies, but with particular focus each week. And those concepts are then referred to throughout the day, not in a forced way, but in a very, very natural way to become embedded as part of the children's thinking. An example of it will be if I start with, let's say, the letter K. K stands for Kadosha, which is the Hebrew term for holiness. When we explored in the week that we focused on Kadosha, we looked at the holiness of the self, the holiness of the people around us, the holiness of a place of learning the holiness of connection with God, the holiness of the soul, and the holiness of nature and the environment around us. So teachers had the freedom to bring out that element. So one of the things that I have found and found from my research is that what teachers want in teaching, well being and emotional intelligence, they want the autonomy to teach according to their personality. And so like this, the concepts have been broad enough, that a teacher can naturally match up with their already set curriculum, and bring it into the lesson without actually causing extra work for them.

Simon Currigan  10:49  

Okay, can I just unpack that a little bit, because what you just said there is really powerful, you have taken your schools faith and values and and each of the letters of KD STARs represents one of those values or faith based beliefs. And you've created a structure that enables teachers to sort of thread this through their curriculum and other lessons. But you're allowing them the sort of latitude to do it in a way that feels natural to them, you're not prescribing them, you're not giving them lesson plans that lead them through the nose point by point by point through someone else's agenda. You're allowing them to do that in a way that reflects the current needs of their own children and their own natural interests.

Esther Cohen  11:29  

100% I think that for me personally, and possibly coming from my background, as a therapist, as well, as a seasoned teacher for almost 40 years now. I think, for me, what I have experienced myself, is that I teach best, when I am allowed to be myself. And I think that's what happens, especially when it comes to teaching about emotions, teaching about core fundamental concepts, that are the grounding of a person's, you know, resilience of a person's emotional understanding of life, a person cannot be anything but themselves. So because otherwise children pick up that this is theory, this is not practice. And so what I aimed and it has proven to be incredibly successful, to create through the KD STAR is really as you said, it's a platform for teachers and for our pupils to learn and develop in a semi structured way, but it's delivered in a way that is global. So the Muslim children, the Catholic children, the you know, all the different faiths within our school are able to hear and integrate it into their own life.

Simon Currigan  12:53  

Could you walk us through what the other letters stand for what those values and beliefs are.

Esther Cohen  12:58  

So K is for Kadosha, which is holiness, D is for Dara Charis, which means respect. So again, we talk about self respect, the respect for one's body, respect for one's health, respect for friends, respect for staff at school, respect for property, respect for the environment and respect for God's presence within our learning environment and respect for everyone and everybody. Respect for their learning. The S is for Simcha. Simcha means joy. So we have a very strong focus there on positive thinking, growth mindset, finding gratitude in the day to day life, overcoming difficult days, building resilience, all through joy. There is a Jewish saying that says that joy breaks all boundaries. You know, I teach them that we all have a switch. If we wake up in a bad mood, you press restart, and then we can choose what mindset we want. T is for Torah, which is the foundation of Jewish learning. This is delivered and translated as self development. It's about them understanding what helps them learn. It's about reflective thinking. It's about what does the learning means to them, how they can incorporate what they're learning at school, outside school. The A is for Akhdad, which means togetherness. So it is about working together about supporting one another about playtime, about being aware of children who are on their own, about working together with their teachers, working together with dinner supervisors, working together to succeed, working together to create the right outcomes for our school. And then the R is Ruach which is the atmosphere. And that we use in two ways we talk about creating the Ruach, creating the calm, pleasant welcoming atmosphere in our school, and that there are times for that. And then we also talk about Ruach is creating the environment of joy when we are singing together, when we're saying prayers together, when we are performing for the parents, when we are in the playground, which is about creating that that real KD atmosphere. And that's what the letters stand for.

Simon Currigan  15:33  

What I really like about this is by setting out a framework for teachers to use, but giving them the autonomy to make choices about how that's delivered, what you're doing is you're creating sort of almost like a curriculum that's automatically differentiated across the year groups. It's a spiral curriculum, because take the example of respect there, what respect to looks like in a reception class will look very different to what respect looks like in a year six class,

Esther Cohen  15:59  

Yes, 100%. And I'll tell you how I introduced it to the teachers. And so what I did was I created a concept that then I took to a staff training day. In that, I explained the different concepts, I asked teachers to add on how they understood the concept and of the different letters. To add on in what way they felt that those letters can be delivered in our school. And I asked them to think about the curriculum. And I asked them to think how they could introduce those concepts in an age appropriate way to their pupils. It is a curriculum that was built together, teachers have bought into it, because they have had to say, it is not prescriptive, and it's structured. As a teacher of many years, I have found that too often I will walk into a classroom. And there might have been something that happened in the playground or a child is going through a particularly challenging life event, let's say and I feel it's really, really important to know our children and to understand their sensitivities and be able to mould the lesson. Sometimes with a whole class and sometimes through an individual conversation with the child, to actually normalise the different events that's happening in a child's life. And through KD STAR, we have been able to create a platform in which a teacher can see and feel what their child is needing, with what their cohort of pupils are needing. And they're able to then incorporate in different ways that emotional supportive exploration if you like or investigation for the child to help a normalise life events, feelings, unpleasant feelings, as well as very pleasant feelings and help link to the learning.

Simon Currigan  18:06  

What I like about your approach as well is what you're going to end up with, if you follow the same path that you've taken is a curriculum that's not only structured, but actually is wrapped around the individual approach and values of the school. Whenever you start putting something like this together, you've got lots of information and aims to kind of juggle you've got lots of content, what was your starting point? If you're someone listening to this right now, and you're thinking whether you were a faith school or not, you're thinking, well, our school has values, and we're not seeing them embedded in our school life. What's the starting point?

Esther Cohen  18:38  

What I would say is my starting point was knowing and understanding my pupils as head of religious education in the school, and the one who sort of helps deliver and promote the ethos and core beliefs of our schools. I have always tried to transmit to our teachers the importance of knowing and understanding our pupils. And with that comes knowing and understanding to their family background, so that when we are building our pupils ability to make choices to develop the emotional intelligence, to develop their reflective thinking, that it has to match the environment that they are coming from. Facing life can be continued outside school, it can't be pie in the sky. There is so much pressure nowadays to deliver a tremendous amount of knowledge that has to be shown as evidence, the impact is evident. And sometimes teachers end up last in a world of deadlines of gathering evidences and things like that. In my teaching, the knowledge I deliver often focus on sparking their curiosity about a topic. You know, we have, as I say, my school Rabbi Google is there to answer any questions about religious education, and it is across the spectrum for all faiths, and those that have no faith at all. So really, once they have the curiosity, and they have the techniques to be able to access information, then what becomes fundamental is that they should have the confidence to have the resilience, have the self esteem, have the growth mindset to explore their learning. So that for me is the beginning of my thinking for the curriculum that I've created. And certainly for the KD STAR,

Simon Currigan  20:54  

Esther, you did a Master's on teaching self regulation. 

Esther Cohen  20:58  


Simon Currigan  20:58  

What I would also be really interested in finding out about is, during the Masters, what did you discover? And how did this influence your approach, when you developed KD STAR, and sort of the wider curriculum that you started talking about the spiral curriculum,

Esther Cohen  21:11  

So for many, many years, I noticed that children learn best when they feel understood. And this takes me back to a pupil who I taught many, many years ago, who unfortunately, is no longer with us, a child who was severely disabled, and who one time I was teaching, and the child was very, very frustrated, because this child had full knowledge of his ill health. And came into lesson and couldn't grasp it, anything, was disruptive. And I gave the child a bunch of colouring pencils and a piece of paper. And I said to the child, show me how you feel. And the child picked up all of the colouring pencils together. So to scribble, like, with a lot of anger onto the paper, then put the pencils down and looked at me and said, Are we going to be learning now? And so once the child felt that his feeling had been acknowledged, and his frustration acknowledged, without any conversation, really, the child was able to then engage. And I thought that there is a lot of correlation between a child being happy and how they can learn. And so what I wanted to look at, was whether my theory had any scientific background and and how we look like in other people's classrooms. So that was my motivation behind doing my research, I went down the neurobiological route. And what I found was a child's perception of what's absorbed through the five senses either is interpreted as danger, which then triggers the fight flight freeze system, or they are able to negotiate through it once they take a deep breath, Faith education, and not just faith education, as I found leads itself to opening healthy avenues and constructive avenues to help children become reflective thinkers. And what I found in my research was that to understand how stress and anxiety can work as a blockage to children learning and how it is that potentially learning about faith education and self regulation, can actually support a child's learning and build them towards a healthy mental health approach, a healthy emotional stance that will support them through life. Often, it's a case of teaching children about understanding that when they get to their initial reaction to the perception that they have a choice at that point, and it's about teaching self regulation skills. So my question then became, okay, so how can we deliver those skills through education to narrow my research, I focused on faith education, and then further narrowed it into Jewish education. And what I found was really, really interesting. What I found was that faith education, brain imaging has shown that people who have something to hang on to that have some kind of faith, religious faith or non religious faith actually present healthier brain processing and a healthier brain than the people that don't have something to hang on to. So knowing that about the research, I then look to see how it could be incorporated into the classrooms. I interviewed teachers, I interviewed a head of religious education, I interviewed a educational psychologists who used to be a teacher to find out if they already did teach self regulation skills in their teaching. Self regulation is composed of different parts. The first one was what I called thought. Thought is the initial perception picked up through the five senses, which is then interpreted by the child. So it's that, a situation happens, the initial thought, which might be positive thinking and might be negative thinking, then we've gone to cognition, which is when that thought is then taken down the route of interpretation. And children build on what they already knew before from previous experiences. So the cognition of that thought might be, it triggers other experiences on the child's mind, or it's a new experience altogether.

Simon Currigan  26:04  

So is this the initial reaction? So in a situation, the thought is our initial reaction to that, but then the cognition is based on our life experiences and the stories we tell ourselves, and what we believe about ourselves in the world? That's kind of how we interpret that initial reaction. Yep,

Esther Cohen  26:22  

That is exactly it. Yes, absolutely. So I particularly wanted to differentiate between the two because things happen. And two children might be present at the same event, and interpret and tell the story back to the teacher in completely different ways. That might be due to their previous experiences. So yes, so that's why I separated between thought and how we perceived it through the senses. And the second thing is the cognition, which is the thinking through what's happened, and our interpretation of the event, which That in itself triggers two things, it triggers the emotions, and triggers the behaviour, emotions will trigger further thoughts, and emotions will trigger the behaviour. So it is the component of the four elements that form the foundation for a child creating and learning the ability to self regulate. I mean, it's not just a process that happens in children, in order to be able to deliver that, as it emerged from my research, a teacher needs to develop the ability to be able to find within themselves, those four areas. So in order to be able to help a child and to even observe the way that a child has been triggered by an event. Right, let's say, a child is doing their work, they make a mistake, the child then looks at the mistake, and either will say, Oh, I need to start again, or I need to get a rubber and, you know, just fix this bit, or I need to get some advice. Or a child who is a perfectionist and perhaps is under a lot of pressure might just fly off the handle. Theyre connecting that experience with past experiences. And perhaps thoughts of I can't do this, I'm not good enough. I'll never be able to do this. And remembering and rehearsing, if you like, past experiences in their mind, mostly unconsciously, which will trigger them feelings. A school is creating habits of growth mindset. In other words, that before a child finds themselves in such a situation, the message within the teaching and the learning is, it's okay to make mistakes, we learn from my mistakes, you know, fantastic. Now you've worked out that doing it this way won't work. So what a wonderful learning experience, please can you share with the class? What I found was that teachers do some elements of this automatically, depending on their own way of thinking, and the way they lead their life. It didn't feel safe for them to say it's okay to make mistakes. It could be from a school environment where there are targets where there are pressures where there are evidence to be met in a incredibly pressurised way, which is not meeting the needs of the cohort of the pupils that they are teaching. And therefore, it's a little bit that like trying harder and harder and harder to push a round peg in the square hole. And as sometimes teachers would be better off taking that step back and thinking what's happening in my Classroom what's happening within myself? And how can I approach this in a different way?

Simon Currigan  30:05  

So what I like about this approach is here, it's not just about knowledge, as you said at the start, it's about teaching specific skills that they can use as they move through the school. 

Esther Cohen  30:14  

Exactly. Yeah. 

Simon Currigan  30:15  

So if you're a teacher, a school leader, listening to this podcast, who's thinking about revamping the way that their school values are embedded throughout the school throughout the curriculum, what's the best first step they can take today to make that process successful in your experience, instead of just paying lip service to those values?

Esther Cohen  30:36  

Okay, so I am glad that you use the word paying lip service. Because, you know, as an inspector, I go around many schools, and I find that in a lot of schools, what happens is  there is box ticking, and tokenism. And I think children when it comes to mental health development and abilities, they perceive when something is just ticking the box and well being is very, very, very serious, it is very, very important. I don't need to highlight the unprecedented amount of mental health problems we're facing in our schools now, both with staff and with children themselves. And what I would say a very, very first step is to have an open conversation with your teachers where it is respectful and respected, where teachers can share how they feel about teaching life skills in with regards to mental health, about resilience. If teachers can't open themselves on sort of wider meeting, then perhaps doing an anonymous survey would help gauge the real picture. Because to be able to implement something like this, you do need to have your teachers on board. And more important, the teachers do need to know that it's not a five minutes wonder. That this is a philosophy and a way forward, that is going to be embedded slowly, because when you talk about teachers putting themselves out there, right, then they are going to be investing themselves and investing their emotional self in it. And they need to know that they are safe, they need to know that they are going to be respected. And they need to know that this is not, as I said, the five minute wonder. It's really, really interesting that you know, in my survey, one of the teachers said that their reluctance with teaching this approach was that some teachers wouldn't know how to deliver it. And I think that that's very true. Sometimes teachers feel that they have to either find themes that don't exist within the lessons. So there is like a very, very tenuous connection with the concept they are trying to deliver, which confuses the children. And sometimes teachers might use personal stories, which they might not be aware that is inappropriate, or that, again, is not right for the context of the lesson that they are teaching. So I think the first step I would say is before even implementing, it's about having a couple of sessions with the teachers to be able to allow them time to reflect upon their own way of thinking, you know, how do they go through the process of thought, cognition, emotion behaviour, where have they seen that in their life, they need to recognise it within themselves to be able to deliver. Now I'm not talking about deep level therapeutic sessions that will be highly, highly inappropriate. I'm talking about allowing teachers to recognise their own emotional processing. In my school, I delivered a session on very, very basic skills of cognitive behavioural therapy, which is recognising thoughts recognising negative trails of thinking and the counters of options have a different way of thinking. Teachers still come back to me and tell me how helpful there was. And I think my school was ready to be able to embrace KD STARs, and I'd say that any schools wanting to take the route of including emotional understanding and reflective thinking has to initially get the teachers on board and they need to understand that the teachers needs in terms of CPD to be able to effectively deliver this.

Simon Currigan  34:49  

I think there's an old Abraham Lincoln quote that goes, I'm going to misquote this terribly, but it's something along the lines of if I had 12 hours to cut down a tree I'd spend 11 sharpening the axe and that's like the preparation work here is so important for getting this right. 

Absolutely. Absolutely. 

Finally, Esther, we ask this of all our guests. Who is the key figure that's influenced you? Or what's the key book that you've read, that has had the biggest impact on your personal approach to working with kids.

Esther Cohen  35:16  

So I am going to break the rule and mention two.  One who briefly about the key influences in my life. First of all, one is my husband, who when I grow up, I want to be like him is just an amazing person, very, very balanced and positive. And the way he conducts his life is a role model for me. So I'd say he's definitely been one of the greater influences in my life. Second person is a rabbi. He is world renowned, he passed away several years ago, but he was actually my rabbi. When I went to New York to study in New York. His name is the Lubavitcher Rebbe, who is Rabbi Menachem Mendel Schneerson. His philosophy is one of embracing every individual in a non judgmental way he's portrayed love that emanates from the soul, and that when we look at individuals, we should mainly look at their soul because their behaviour are linked with circumstances and that we should never ever judge people, but rather embrace them. We're not gods, it's not for us to judge individuals. So I'd say he certainly was the greatest influencer in my life with regards to my approach to teaching with regards to my approach to all faiths and of no faith at all. I love people because I learned from Rabbi Schneerson, to love people. And to have that general acceptance. I'm going to mention one book in particular, which is called The Positive Bias, which is written about his concepts and his teachings, which is by a gentleman, a rabbi called Mendel Kalmenson, and it again highlights the many of the concepts that Rabbi Schneerson taught through his life. Rabbi Schneerson books are translated in many, many languages. But the reason why I would say that one of the books that has influenced me the most is Positive Bias is because it's portrayed Rabbi Schneerson's teachings are portrayed in the way that are accessible to everybody.

Simon Currigan  37:38  

Esther, it's been a fascinating conversation with you, unfortunately, our time is up. But I'd like to say thank you for being on the show. And I'm sure our listeners will walk away with lots of practical ideas and strategies for implementing and embedding values and culture in their school. Thank you for being on the show. 

Esther Cohen  37:54  

It's been an absolute pleasure to join you today, Simon, and an honour, I really hope that your listeners will take a moment to think reflectively and to perhaps just choose a starting point, whether they are teachers, whether they are school leaders, whether they are governors, whether they are involved in education in any way, whether they are a parent, and think of a starting point, one point, one thing that they could do that will enable the conversations about well being that will enable that little bit of reflective thinking skill to be transmitted to the children that they work with.

Emma Shackleton  38:41  

Right. So what I really liked about that was the way that Esther gave people the structure, they needed to communicate those values, but then worked alongside them collaboratively so that they could integrate them in a meaningful way.

Simon Currigan  38:56  

And if you're looking for more practical ways of improving the behaviour of the students in your class, then we've got a completely free download that can help.

Emma Shackleton  39:06  

I think you're talking about the classroom management score sheet Simon? 

Esther Cohen  39:09  

You know it

Emma Shackleton  39:10  

And inside the score sheet, you'll find a list of 37 factors that have a real impact on classroom behaviour. The score sheet has a list of things that you are clearly either doing or not doing. So think of it as a clear roadmap to improve your presence in the classroom. The score sheet is based on 1000's of observations that Simon and I have conducted between us. So you know, it's based on sound real classroom practice.

Simon Currigan  39:38  

And if you're supporting a colleague with their classroom management, it can help make your feedback and action points even more clear and objective.

Emma Shackleton  39:47  

Get your free copy of the score sheet now by going to clicking on the free resources option in the menu, and you'll find it near the top of the page. The score sheet is completely free. Free. So get yours today. And we'll also put a direct link in the episode description.

Simon Currigan  40:05  

And if you've enjoyed today's episode, open up your podcast app right now and hit the subscribe button. This will tell your podcast app to download each and every episode as it's released. So you never miss a thing. And to celebrate, why not rub some butter, where social expectations dictate butter should not be rubbed. Breaking the occasional taboo feels great, and of all the transgressions you could commit today, it's the one least likely to land you in jail apart from the thrill, you'll also make cows everywhere glad they sacrificed their milk to enable this important and meaningful pastime. Get greasing folks

Emma Shackleton  40:44  

What was the quote at the start about wasting time? Whatever you decide to do with your butter, I hope you've enjoyed today's show. Have a brilliant week and we look forward to seeing you next time on school behaviour secrets. Bye for now.

Simon Currigan  40:59  


(This automated transcript may not be 100% accurate.)